Keeping your business LEGALLY Protected - PLUS the Business behind College Sports (NIL Contracts, Rules, & Regulations)
Nathan answers some of the most common legal questions such as “How can I protect my business?” “When do I need to bring in a lawyer” and “Should I take on outside investment?”. Nathan’s unique perspective as a strategic thought partner with business owners gives him insight into some of the difficulties faced by growing business and how to stay ahead of potential problems.
Nathan also gives us insight into a unique & interesting part of his practice with NIL (Name, Image & Likeness) deals with college athletes and the rules & regulations surrounding thpse contracts.
About Nathan Moayyad
Nathan is the managing attorney of a boutique transactional law firm focusing on Business Law, Sports Law, Real Estate Transactions, Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) and Labor and Employment Law. Labor Relations, consulting and strategic advisory services are also available.
Nathan grew up in Southlake, Texas. He graduated with Highest Honors from the University of Texas at Austin. He then attended and graduated from the SMU Dedman Law School where he worked as Chief Counsel of the SMU Small Business Clinic.
Between college and law school, Nathan worked for the RGV Vipers (of the NBA G-League) where he led initiatives to help maximize commercial opportunities for the players and the team. Nathan spent 7 years with BNSF Railway (a Berkshire Hathaway Company) where he blended his law and business background to provide consistently successful results. Nathan is also a Texas trained and experienced mediator.
When he is not busy working with his clients or spending time with his family, you can find him playing a game of soccer at the nearest field, running on the Katy Trail or cheering on his Texas Longhorns and Liverpool FC.
Connect with Nathan
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Episode Transcript
Nathan Moayyad 00:00
And then also there's some financial literacy requirements that the state has imposed to make sure that these kids who do you know sign these big deals have an ability to understand how the money and cash flow works and what to do to manage it so they can be set up for success.
Christy Bowie 00:27
Hey, CEOs, welcome back to the CEO wingwoman. I am so excited to welcome you back to the show. And we have such an exciting guest for you today, I would like to welcome Nathan Moayyad. Nathan is the managing attorney of a boutique transactional law firm focusing on business law, sports law, real estate, transaction, labour and employment law, and so much more. He does consulting and strategic advisory services for legal matters. And he's here to explain how your lawyer can assist your business outside of just transactional work. Nathan, I am so excited to have you here. Thanks for having me. So the first thing I really want to talk about is, you know, a lot of people when they get started, we understand the need for a lawyer to do things like contracts for us, and you know, the basic things to get us set up. But what do you want people to know about working with a lawyer as they continue to grow their business?
Nathan Moayyad 01:18
It's a great question, I think of a lawyer as a very integral part of any business, generally speaking, yeah, I mean, at the bare minimum, they're gonna offer advice on how to negotiate a contract to help grow the business, or how to manage risk and liabilities and things of that sort. But realistically speaking, like, if you if you have a good lawyer on your team, they're going to contribute as a thought partner as well, because most lawyers, when you go through law school, you're taught some basic business principles. And then as you work in the industry, you kind of learn the ins and outs, and then you really can kind of become more of a contributor to how to actually scale up your business rather than just like being a essentially glorified scribe.
Christy Bowie 02:03
And that's so interesting to hear, you know, when you talk about things, that we want lawyers to be involved in the everyday strategic process, you know, I think that's something I preach time and time again, with accountants as well. But really, you know, having I kind of jokingly call this show like a mini board of directors for people, but it's not really a joke. Like, you want to have people to hold you accountable for what things can strategically help you grow your business, because they are an expert at really what they do. So one of the first things I really want to talk to you about, you know, when we think of lawyers, we think of negotiations and court and all of that. So, as a lawyer, what do you want to tell business owners about strength of negotiation, and really how that can help improve our business.
Nathan Moayyad 02:51
I think of negotiations as kind of a two fold thing. So on the one hand, is obviously the outcome of the negotiations. The other thing is how you get there. And I know we've spoke a little bit, I have a story that I don't remember where I heard it, it might have been in law school or business school, but it's it's the parable of the orange. It's just a negotiation story or fable that kind of separates the difference between kind of positional based bargaining and interest based bargaining. I'll use the story as the example of Christy, you and I arguing about an orange. And we both are claiming that we need the entire orange. And that's our positions. So we go to our friend, John. And John says, Why don't you guys cut the orange in half, and you each take half and be happy about it. And neither one of us is satisfied with that. And so we tell John, that he can go bugger off and we'll go take it to court. And we go to court and the judge sits us down basically asks us, well, what do you need the orange for? And you say, well, I need the orange peel, because I want to use it to make orange zest. And I say that I need the orange pulp because I want to squeeze some orange juice. So the judge sits down and thinks a little bit and says, Well, here's here's the solution, we're going to peel the orange, you're going to take all the skin and I'm going to take all the pulp, and we both leave happy with the outcome there. And the value of that story is if you can take your negotiation approach from that first surface layer of like, this is my position, and I'm sticking to it and then make concessions over time. And you ask instead, well, what is the interest of the negotiation? What am I trying to get out of it? And what is the other party trying to get out of it? Because then you can actually exchange things that are of low value to you and have high value to them. And that has two benefits. One you actually get exactly what you wanted out of the deal and to your reputation in future negotiations is a positive one and that only encourages further growth.
Christy Bowie 04:49
Yeah, that's a really great point and even you talking about you know how we wouldn't have known what each other wanted out of the oranges and wouldn't known it was a possibility that we could both win. I think there is A big thought process, I guess that you don't want to reveal your hand to the other people, you don't want to kind of show what you're wanting. But you know, you're kind of telling us this can be of benefit, which I think is so important to think about as you're growing a business and learning how we can maintain our professional reputation. But also kind of asked for the things we want. I would love to hear your take on how we can negotiate and go for the things we want. But like you said, protect our professional reputation as not just frivolously taking things to court. Oh, yeah,
Nathan Moayyad 05:32
I think the most valuable commodity that any business has is their reputation or their goodwill. That's, that's the currency that you use in business. So, I mean, I've worked with small business owners, medium sized companies. And it's always the same theme, right? Like they, the more trustworthy the other party is, because of have a history of working together, the more simple the negotiations tend to be, if there's low trust, getting a deal done is like pulling teeth, they're not going to want to make any concessions, they're not going to share with the other party. And I've always advised my clients, please, that if you feel that there is a low trust environment, in your commercial dealings with these other people, then it's probably best to kind of take a step back and think maybe this is not the right deal for me. Because sometimes even the most tightly written contract that has all the protections that you think you want, is still going to lead to an undesirable outcome, because the parties just didn't have trust with each other, and they're going to look for a way to get out of it or create some sort of problems for you.
Christy Bowie 06:36
Yeah, I think that's something really good that you bring up, you can get the contract, you can get the exact right thing you want. But it doesn't really matter if you don't get the right outcome. Even as a business owner, we have negotiations with vendors and suppliers and just basic things, at what point in those conversations as we're growing, should we or do we need to be thinking about bringing a lawyer into either help and advise us or actually negotiate on behalf of us,
Nathan Moayyad 07:03
I'm gonna, I'm gonna just say, the earliest possible moment, I think that it's better to have a lawyer at the ground floor than it is at the end. Because, you know, I, in my experience, I've seen scenarios where, you know, a client or prospective client will come to you and say, you know, I need to form a business entity and get kind of my formation and, and corporate documents put together, and you kind of give them what you think that it's going to cost. And they, they scoff at that kind of money. I'm a startup, I'm a small business, I don't have that type of money. And so what I've seen most of the time is when they go try to do that on their own, you know, months later, maybe a year later or something, they'll come back and the corporate cleanup that's required is going to cost them 10 fold.
Christy Bowie 07:48
Yep. I think that's a common opinion in business. It's like, oh, I can't afford to do that. It's like, No, you can't afford not to. So I know a little bit of what we touched on previously was, you know, you saying, as a business owner, wanting to protect your reputation and protect your goodwill. And I think as we've moved into more of the digital space, I've seen a lot of this come up in terms of, you know, trademarking things, and making sure that you know, when people say things about you or your business, you are being protected. What are your thoughts on the steps that we should be taking to protect our business? Whether it's, you know, now we're things we need to think about as we grow? I
Nathan Moayyad 08:25
think there's a couple of things there. So I think the the kind of raw legal answer is making sure that you have all of your, you know, document types in order. So whether that's your entity formation documents to kind of protect your personal assets from your business obligations and liabilities, or whether that's your general commercial contracts that are supposed to hopefully, if well written, protect your business interests in your dealings with other parties, or if it's your filings with the US Patent and Trademark Office of the US Copyright Office to actually like register and protect your patents, logos and other forms of intellectual property. And then also just having, you know, your confidentiality and non disclosure agreements in place, when you're having sensitive conversations with other people, you don't want that their trade secrets or anything like that to get leaked. That's kind of the legal part. But then the other part of it is also just exercising a little bit of common sense, right? Like, if if you see something that's too good to be true, chances are probably is I have clients that are in some spaces that I don't know a lot about the industry, for example, like the crypto markets and things of that sort, and I'll get approached and we'll have conversations about certain opportunities that come their way and I say, Look, I can't tell you to not do something, but I will tell you like we will need to do some due diligence. And oftentimes, what we uncover is that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And so, you know, just exercising a little bit of discretion and kind of taking that deep breath and saying you know what, I know this opportunity sounds really enticing, but maybe it's not the right one.
Christy Bowie 09:57
Yeah, that's super important to know and Eve And to have somebody to talk to you about ways. I mean, I know both of us through our business experiences and working with clients have seen lots of things. And so people just seeing something on social media and saying, oh my gosh, so and so said that I could do this, you know, you and I have seen those things actually play out and have experience as professionals looking at those. So I think that's a really good point. The other thing that you brought up, that is not something I would commonly think about is like nondisclosure agreements, as you're growing your business, there are probably things that make your business special, and make your business your business. So thinking about how we have to protect our trade secrets, I think that is incredibly important. Do you have kind of an opinion on? At what point things do become trade secrets? And were in negotiations or in conversations? Do we have to start protecting our rights without looking, you know, obnoxious? I guess?
Nathan Moayyad 10:55
That's a That's a great question. I think of of trade secrets and confidential information as as a pretty broad thing. So if it's something that is unique to your business, you should protect it. That being said, you know, you want to make sure that if you're having those conversations, that you recognise that the other party is wanting to do business with you, they're not there to pinch your trade secrets. So to the extent that your NDA is can be, you know, bilateral and reasonable, that's going to make it a lot easier for the other party to sit down and be like, Yeah, let's, let's talk freely. Because if it's very one sided, and they're looking at it, and be like, Who is this person that that offered me, this NDA that like gives me absolutely no protections, but gives them all of them, they're going to, they're going to kind of go into those conversations accordingly. They're not going to want to share anything with you. And so I think the answer that I wanted to answer your question, sorry, I kind of went off on a little tangent there is, it's a trade secret, if it's important to you, if it's like a supplier list, or you know, some sort of proprietary blend of something, if you're making a product or whatever the case may be, and you'll want to make sure that those things are patented or protected, and in the eyes of the government too, but just kind of in your day to day dealings, like, just make sure that you're not unreasonable because people people respond to that stuff. And it's more important than we think like I think sometimes we will look at lawyers and say it's your job to protect my risk. And yes, that's true. But also, we need to help you protect your reputation sometimes protect you from yourself, because that can be oftentimes the biggest impediment between getting a deal done and one that falls apart.
Christy Bowie 12:31
Yeah, I think that's super important that you bring that up, you know, it makes me think of, if you guys listening are familiar with what's been going on with Bethenny Frankel. Lately, she has been wanting to protect herself, which great for her, you know, I completely support protecting yourself when people say things about you or your business. But what's been happening is she's been sending almost frivolous cease and desist to you know, smaller tick tock Instagram creators. And instead of protecting herself as a businesswoman, it now looks like she just starts frivolous legal action. And like you said, you sometimes need somebody to say like, Hey, this isn't actually worth it.
Nathan Moayyad 13:12
Oh, yeah, I can't comment on the legal justification for the letters. But what I will say is, it's very, it's a very delicate balance between knowing when something is worth pursuing, and when it's not. And if she is going after content creators who they're following isn't that big, or their impact is relatively small, like, maybe you just let that go. Sometimes, sometimes the publicity comes back around in a positive way for you. And if, if she's, you know, sending out all these letters, the reputation is going to come back around, and hopefully, hopefully, it all gets resolved peacefully. But yeah, that's a risky thing.
Christy Bowie 13:50
So I know, something else that we had previously talked about, is considering outside investment or partnership. And as we grow our businesses, there's going to be times when we do need outside investment, whether that be funding or mentorship or you know, whatever that is, in order to grow our business. So when we start to think about that, I know that you've consistently talked about only getting into business with people we feel kind of have a win win for both people and there's trust there. What other advice do you have for us considering outside investment and beginning to start that process?
Nathan Moayyad 14:27
I would say the first thing is, without stating the obvious, is hire a lawyer. Because when you start dealing with outside investors, there's a couple of things that come in play, whether it's dealing the fact that you're going to be involving securities law and working with the SEC and making sure that you have all of your proper filings with them. And then alternatively, you know the the terms with which you agree to the investment, sometimes it is very, very heavy, you may get some cash and that may give you you know, an injection of capital that you need to grow the business but the payoff is you You owe a tonne of money. Or if it comes back in the form of you know, a convertible note that turns into equity in your business, now you have less ownership in your business or if the come if it comes in the form of a loan and the, you know, the interest is on is very heavy on that, and you aren't able to pay it back in a timely manner. And then you get punished that way. So, it's very important to make sure that you have an understanding of not only who is investing and why, but also how and the vehicle that they're using. And kind of doing some sort of branch tree mind map of, well, these are the different possible outcomes, if things don't go go the way that I'm hoping, because I think we all have a tendency to slant towards the positive, oh, it's gonna work out perfect. But it doesn't always work out that way. And you want to be prepared for that. And I want to be very careful, because I feel like all I talked about as lawyers like managing risk, and I don't want people to think that I'm against growth, I'm very pro growth, but I want it to be safe and responsible, I don't want it to be the type of like flash in the pan that it goes away as quickly as it comes. And so I worry that sometimes we want the get rich quick or you know, find a way to just rapidly scale up. And sometimes you need to actually take those steps in between, so that you are prepared for the growth so you can manage it. And sometimes I think the businesses that don't really have that in that ability to endure, they kind of skip those steps.
Christy Bowie 16:27
That's definitely a great point. And that's so funny that you brought that up, I had a previous experience with a lawyer. And it was for another business of mine. And she was kind of telling us everything that could happen as a result of this contract. And my business partner was like, I feel like she's being so negative. And I was like, but I want to know, like, what could happen? Because how do I prepare myself for the worst possible situation, if I don't know what that situation is? And it's so funny, because I think there's different personality types that are going to react to that differently. But, you know, my, my goal, as you know, a CFO to my clients, as a business advisor to my clients, is to make sure they can make informed decisions. How in the world do you make an informed decision, when you don't know what the possible outcomes are? You know, if you don't know that this absolutely terrible situation could happen. Even if there's like a point oh, 1% chance of it. You can't prepare yourself for that. So I think that's definitely something that we all need to keep in mind. It's not a negative, it's just advice on the possible outcomes of it.
Nathan Moayyad 17:29
Yeah, absolutely. I think about this a lot with my conversations with my clients, because I tend to be the, the brakes, the brake pedal, if you will, not the not the gas. And I don't like that about me, because my, my personality outside of my work is, is very, like, I want to get things done quick, and I want to move on it. And I want to be you know, not aggressive, but I definitely to be proactive. But when I'm talking to my clients, they sometimes want to just float put the pedal to the metal and just go. And I have to tell him, Okay, let's take a step back. Let's, let's think about this for a second. And I think they appreciate that. Um, I mean, like you said, like, sometimes they just want, they want to know what the possible outcomes are. So they can make their informed decision. And it's just that delicate balance between not standing in the way too much and just kind of agnostically giving the advice and saying, I can't, I can't necessarily recommend that you do or not do something. But these are the possible outcomes. If you think that it's worth the risk game on, let's give it a chance to see what happens if you think that it's not, there will be other opportunities in the future.
Christy Bowie 18:35
Yeah, that's definitely great to hear. And I want to go back a little bit to, you know, talking about outside investment or partnership. And you know, you were talking about making sure you know, the risks and making sure you know, everything. First of all, also, please talk to a CPA, because there's lots of declarations. But also, you know, I've seen partnerships go awry quite quite a bit. I think that partnerships in business are maybe if not more tight knit than a marriage truly, you know, partnership, dissolution, probably business as well as tax. Tax perspectives are very, very difficult to get through. So generally, when I talk to my clients about, you know, bringing an outside investment or partnering with somebody, I like to say, I don't love when you only have an investor or a partner, because they bring money to the table. From my perspective, they need to bring something that you can't go get from a bank. And I don't just mean like a bank won't loan you that much. Like there are other ways to figure it out. I really like to see, you know, this person has expertise in your industry, they can connect you to the right people, they're going to be a mentor for you. Because at the end of the day, you know, you are working with them in a business sense, and there are lots of opportunities to get money. There's not a lot of opportunities to get business advice from the right people. And so if you're giving up a sheet hear of your company or whatever that looks like, you know, I really like there to be an aspect of mentorship or something more than just financial, what do you have to say about that?
Nathan Moayyad 20:09
I completely agree with that. I think if you can, if you can get someone with subject matter expertise in an area that is a weakness of yours, or an area that's necessary for your business to grow, that is worth the conversation of some sort of equity exchange for that expertise. Because you're right, you can find you can find capital in a lot of places. I mean, we were here in Dallas, and this is one of the most robust angel investor networks in the country, we have a lot of seed accelerators, a lot of incubators in Texas, we have a lot of places where you can get money and help. But expertise is a little bit more of a finite commodity, it's definitely one that's more valuable than than cash, especially when you're starting out. I also wanted to say something about how you mentioned that a partnership is like a marriage. I completely agree. I, when I was in college, I took a class as an elective in the music school, and it was about music, copyright and publishing laws. And my professor on day one, and I'll never forget this, I don't I don't know why it came up. But he said, he used to represent a lot of bands. And so he said, The advice that I always gave was, make sure all of your documents that govern the band are signed on day one, because 10 years afterwards, when the band is broken up, or whatever happens, all of that baggage follows with you. And you will not get anyone to agree to sign anything. And that's because it is very personal. It's it is like a marriage in some respects. And because of that, it's very difficult to get people to see I get that meeting of the minds, especially when there's all these personal feelings that were never addressed and resolved. So the earliest possible time is for you is the time for you to get all of those uncertainties sorted out. Otherwise, you may never get it.
Christy Bowie 21:55
So kind of thinking about going down that path of maybe we don't get along with our partner, maybe things aren't going well, maybe it's not even a partner at all. But when we do start to address conflict in our business, I know you know, one of your expertises is really conflict resolution and thinking about how to get through elements of conflict. What do you have to tell us about a situation where we may face conflict? How do we de escalate that? How do we approach that?
Nathan Moayyad 22:23
Great question. So I'll answer both as a as a lawyer and kind of as a mediator. There's a lot of overlap between the two. But But I think of it as you know, the single most important thing in dispute resolution is figuring out two things one, like, obviously, what's the issue and then to, you know, managing the personalities within it, because oftentimes, there is some misunderstanding, some hurt feelings, maybe they weren't intended to be the way that they came out. And if you can kind of diagnose those things early on, that helps to defuse and deescalate the tension. And that's when you can really get to the heart of the issue. And you know, one of the things that I was able to study in law school, which is it's been practising family law for a long time, but it's kind of starting to now get traction in in civil law, is this, this concept of collaborative law. And in family law, the setting that it's most commonly used for is when there's a separation or divorce, and the parents obviously have a amicable separation. And so they're just collaborating in the best interest of preservation of the, of the family unit in terms of like making sure the kids are taken care of, and the assets are distributed fairly. And there's really no court proceedings, it's very much that the lawyers, the parties in the separation, all just kind of put the problem at the middle of the table, and contribute solutions to it. And in the civil setting, it's much more, you know, business partners, or people that are in business together in some sort of way. And, again, same principle, right, like you voluntarily agree your vault, your lawyers voluntarily agree. And there's kind of these rules of engagement in terms of being honest and transparent with each other and just getting to the heart of the matter, and offering solutions rather than pulling away. Right. It kind of blends in with that interest based bargaining, like what is the interest here? Are we trying to preserve our relationship? Are we trying to work together in the future? Or do we want to just go scorched earth? I would say most reasonable people would prefer the former. And the way that you can help to do that is to just manage the personalities so much of what we do, and I'm sure you would agree is managing personalities and managing people I would almost go so far as to 80% of what we do in that in that ballpark, because the the day to day, you know, legal work or accounting, work tax advisory, like we could do that with our eyes closed, but the the variety comes from the personalities that we deal with.
Christy Bowie 24:51
Exactly right. And like how do you adjust your approach to whatever is going on to meet that person's personality and I think that's So good that you talked about, you know, knowing that person's personality and approaching it based on that. Even such little things in business, you know, I always think about when I worked in corporate and I had this manager, nicest person ever when we met in person, but if she sent me an email, ooh, it was like a one liner with a period. And I was like, she's so mad at me. And learning, like, No, I could see her five minutes later, and she was not mad at me. That's just how she emailed. And I think there's a lot of situations, especially in conflict that just have to do with personalities and understanding how that works. Because if I had thrown a fit and been like, you're mad at me, like, what did I do wrong like that? It wasn't the case, it was my perception, based on her personality, and my personality was more of one that was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm terrified that somebody is not at me. And so really learning, you know, what those personalities are, and having somebody who's maybe like a third party, not as invested in what's going on and not as emotional, I can see that being exceedingly helpful.
Nathan Moayyad 25:58
Yeah, so much of, of interpersonal conflict is, is things like you just said, right, like how we perceive what's actually going on, because sometimes people have no idea that the other person has hurt feelings, and communication may not be as transparent and there's no, you know, motive behind it, it just happens to be that that's the way that that person is wired. And so much of like leadership is learning those things and meeting people where they are, and finding a way to kind of unlock those, those things that help to motivate them. And sometimes it can be as simple as writing your email more, you know, kindly, or it can be, you know, sometimes you got to lay into somebody, I mean, I grew up playing soccer, and I had coaches that were very hard on us. I mean, the old school kind of roughneck type of coach, and I never really responded well, to that. I mean, yeah, it motivates you through fear. But the best, the best leaders, and the best coaches I've observed and experience were the ones that kind of put their arm around my shoulder, you know, made me feel confident about myself. And that's really when I felt like I got to take off and kind of shine. And that's, that's just the way that I'm wired. That doesn't mean that I can't, you know, be taught new things and be motivated differently. But that's, that's kind of the optimal way for me. And I'm sure there are others that feel that way. And some people are the opposite, right. And it's a good leader finds a way to kind of navigate those continuums and find a way to like, meet people where they are and find a way to kind of get their talents to shine.
Christy Bowie 27:27
So Nathan, I would love to hear from you. What really should people be looking for when they are looking for a lawyer? And maybe do you have some questions we should ask to get to know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah,
Nathan Moayyad 27:39
I think there's a couple of things. Some of them are more on the interpersonal side, some of them are more on the practical side, I think. If you are the type of person who needs to meet with your lawyer face to face a lot, make sure that you have one nearby. I would also say find out what their hourly rate is or how they tend to charge for their time, sometimes peep some some attorneys do hourly rate, some of them do projects, some of them do some sort of a commission based on the totality of a deal. Some of them do all of the above and some hybrids and things of that sort. Those are kind of the more practical ones. The the other ones are more personality based, what what is someone's communication style. So for example, me, I tend to over communicate, I like to make sure that I am unequivocally clear about what I'm trying to express. It served me well. And sometimes clients may respond to that. Sometimes they don't. And so for me, that's, that's my approach. And if they don't necessarily like that, then it's probably best that we don't work together. But if they do want that, then I think it would be a nice, natural fit. The other thing is, you know, having a good relationship with other lawyers in your network. So I've been very lucky, I consider myself a good attorney, but I know some really good ones. And if there's something that's over my head, I know exactly who to call.
Christy Bowie 28:56
Oh, yeah. And I've been told this is the best business advice I was ever given. You don't have to know that you can do it, you need to know that you can figure it out. That's right, know that you have the resources to figure it out.
Nathan Moayyad 29:07
Exactly. And so so from that perspective, you know, if I have something that is a litigation matter, I know exactly what I'm calling, if it's a, you know, employment matter that's outside of kind of the scope of what I do, I know who to call. So for me, like those are kind of the more interpersonal sides. Because if you are if you're an attorney that nobody really wants to pick up the phone when you answer, that's a problem.
Christy Bowie 29:30
And there's probably a reason. Exactly. Perfect. So I know you have a really interesting practice area as you've kind of gotten into, you know, branding and NIHL deals. I would love for you to talk about that. I think our listeners are gonna find this very interesting with what's going on with all of that right now.
Nathan Moayyad 29:50
Yeah, I love to talk about this. So I have always I went to the University of Texas, so college football, college sports, get mad
Christy Bowie 29:59
for that. It's fun. I mean,
Nathan Moayyad 30:02
but actually, I'm sure it's the same thing, right? Like, it's a big part of kind of your college experience. And so I always wondered when I was in school is like these guys. They're exchanging all this notoriety for for a scholarship and like, where's their endorsement deals, where's their opportunity to kind of make some because not all of these guys get to go to the NFL or the NBA or professional in baseball or whatever sport that they play. And when when the rules for NFL changed recently, I, I was very happy for the athletes, I think it's long overdue. But also I saw an opportunity because Texas actually pass a state law that kind of creates some guardrails and controls over how nio works. And there's kind of the brand strategy side, which I can advise on. And there's also kind of the legal side. So the legal side is, you know, the state of Texas basically has a couple of big rules. One, they've outlined kind of a list of things that you cannot endorse, they're pretty common sense, like illegal drugs, you know, adult content, things that are not appropriate for any any kind of like public forum, you also cannot use NFL money, or NFL opportunities to induce a student to go to your specific school. So like, between Texas a&m and Texas, they can't say well, hey, you know, if you come here, these NFL deals will, will be for you. If you don't, they're not so. And then also, there's some financial literacy requirements that the state has imposed, to make sure that these kids who do you know, sign these big deals have an ability to understand how the money and cash flow works and what to do to manage it. So they can be set up for success. So I think the rules are actually pretty sensible and fair, I think maybe some people would have different feelings, because they want it fully, you know, wild, wild west. But I think for kids in that age bracket, it's really helpful. I mean, we've seen a lot of athletes that go pro early that flame out, because they don't have any idea what to do with their millions of dollars. So from that perspective, it's pretty helpful. But then there's also kind of this brand strategy side, which I find much more interesting, because it's, it's the part that you really do get to see these athletes kind of showcase what their, what their public persona is. And I always tell people, as far as my clients, there's kind of four big pillars for your brand, strategy, one, and maybe the most important one, athletic performance. If you are playing well, you will get coverage. And if you get coverage, people will pay attention to you more. The second part of that is make good grades, your eligibility depends on it. So don't, don't fall below the GPA minimum. The third one, and the fourth one are much more related to the actual content, right? Like, engage with your, your followers, you see something you like, like it, comment on it, share it, make sure that people are feeling like that connection to you. And then lastly, like make sure your content is authentic. I, I see a lot of college athletes that all their posts, or all of their content is just commercial deals like endorsing this product or that product. And eventually like that starts to wear thin, because people like well I'm not getting, I'm not getting a feel for who this person is, I'm just seeing that they're getting paid to post. So striking that balance between like something that's real and authentic to you. But also like connecting with your audience through these, these posts that are you know, paid for. I think if you can kind of find a healthy balance between those four things, you will have a very good chance of being a very successful student athlete in terms of your NFL deals,
Christy Bowie 33:31
that's really interesting, you know, and you keeping up with all this changing law is a super niche area to kind of be in and make sure you're an expert in. And I think a lot of this not only applies to student athletes, as we've seen in these deals, but also business owners, you know, as we've talked about, and we previously talked about in Kate's episode, you know, personal branding and making sure that's authentic. And you know, the two things that she really focused on was making sure that you are authentic because that makes sure that you don't burn burnout in be pending to be somebody you're not. And then also you know, bringing in that personal touch because that is exactly what we're seeing big brands do right now you know, Instagram is coming out with you know, here's our CEO and here's the person he is and not just making sure that we're doing you know commercials here and there and there and that's just something really really good for us to keep up with what is kind of you know, the the latest you've seen on that and where do you see things going in the future and what should you know, athletes but also business owners take from all of this?
Nathan Moayyad 34:35
Sure. So the way that I see it going right now, it's hard to say I think the existential threat to NFL and, and college sports in general is going towards pay for play, right? You come here you'll get paid you don't come here you you won't. I don't know if that's necessarily on the horizon yet but it is is kind of the looming worry for everyone. If you're a business owner, I think the most important thing for you to consider is which athletes are going to resonate the most with the product or service that you're wanting to sell, you know, at a Texas, you know, be John Robinson is our star running back, and he's super popular, super nice, his content is really good. And I don't know how it exactly happened. But you know, Lamborghini did a deal with him. And he was at the Circuit of the Americas this weekend for the f1 race. And so, you know, that has some sort of connection. And so everyone kind of resonates with that. But also, you know, you have other athletes across the country, like I think of the goalie at SMU. I don't know how this happened, but it was Sam's Club offered her a sponsorship, because her name is Sam. And I love that idea. Right? Like, it's, it's, it's the easiest way to kind of just generate some buzz about maybe not, there's something that's not front of mind for everybody. Like, I don't think about Sam's Club, generally. But if you get, you know, 50 athletes with that name, and you put them on, and then I'll deal and they're all posting, like, that's gonna create some traction. And then you're, you're gonna get some bump out of that. And so I think it's just being strategic and careful with how you want to promote your brand and finding the right athletes that suit the goal that you're trying to achieve. And that's, that's a hard thing to answer specifically, because I think every business has some uniqueness to it. But I do think that if you are clever, you can really you can really get some headway with these types of Enel branding deals.
Christy Bowie 36:34
Yeah, that's super interesting to hear, especially, you know, we've talked about influencers previously, but how are we going in the future with, you know, you said the four pillars you want athletes to specifically exhibit and I think they're almost held to a higher standard that really makes sure they aren't going to be a detriment to your brand, if they are having to, you know, have stellar athletic performance. I mean, I couldn't do that. So they're already way better than me. If they have to, you know, maintain a certain level of grades, you know, that your brand isn't going to be tanked? When you're like, oh, somebody who failed out of college is, you know, supporting me. So given these kinds of deals, what are like the structure of these deals? How does that work? I am just super interested, because it's not something that I have heard about a lot?
Nathan Moayyad 37:21
It's a great question. The short answer is, it's different. Because right now, not all states have rules and regulations that govern it. But but in Texas, what I can tell you is, there's basically three important contracts in play when it comes to a university in the state of Texas, and one is the, the individual and I'll offer itself, the other is the contract that the athlete has signed with his team. And then the third one is whether or not the company has signed the contract with the school. And the way that these three contracts are essentially examined, is to make sure that there's no conflicts and the way that there's a conflict check is that you actually have to disclose to the school, Hey, I've been offered this NFL deal, the school's compliance arm, we'll take it, take a look at it and say, you know, this is this is clear, we're good to go. And then you can sign it and begin to kind of take action on it. Alternatively, if there is a conflict, there's, there's 10 days to to cure it. So you go back to the company and say, hey, you know, we got to work around some of these specific issues, and then you kind of resolve those, and then you can give it back to the school and kind of go from there. So that's another reason that it's actually good to have a lawyer, look at your NFL deals, because those conflicts can can make or break the success of that, that opportunity for you.
Christy Bowie 38:35
So I'm gonna give you a chance to brag on yourself here for a moment because I know you do things a little bit differently at your firm, and you really focus on you know, very specific aspects that make you unique. And to any listeners, anytime people reach out to me with questions. You know, this is the person who I send my clients to so would love for you guys to get a chance to hear about his firm what he offers and you know who he is really a good fit for?
Nathan Moayyad 39:02
Sure, I have a boutique transactional firm that my main focus areas are business law, sports law, real estate transactions, mediations, and Alternative Dispute Resolutions and, and kind of transactional matters related to labour and employment. I don't do any sort of like litigation. It's not my personality type. And it doesn't really suit the type of vision that I wanted for my firm. I wanted my firm to always have a slant or a bent towards growth. And if you're always in court, it's hard to do that. So I I've kind of set up the stage for that's the type of work that I do. Primarily my clients, though, are entrepreneurs, small to medium sized companies, healthcare professionals, real estate professionals, athletes, coaches, things of that sort. And I firmly believe that if you if you can't have an in house legal department, a firm like mine is a good natural fit because we can offer those same types of services, but without the kind of long term commitment.
Christy Bowie 40:04
Yeah, exactly. That's so important to be thinking about. And just to have somebody who you know, has your back, you know, in my mind, anytime you need a lawyer, immediately, you're probably not in a great position unless you've been proactively working with them. And so reaching out and finding a lawyer and saying, you know, hey, I just want to meet with you, here's about my business, and what ways could you potentially serve me in the future and staying up to date with them, I think is so incredibly important. Because if you are in a position where I need a lawyer to help me with this, or I'm in a situation, need a lawyer to, you know, de escalate this situation, they can't help you, if they don't know what's been going on in your business, if they don't know you as a human being. And if you're in a time crunch to get things resolved, that's not really the situation you want to be in. So, you know, just like I always say, with accountants that same with lawyers, no, you can't have one too early. I can't imagine like waking up and being like, I don't know who I would reach out to if I had a bad situation. It's one of those things that I feel like should help every business owner sleep at night to know that they have a professional in their corner, knowing if they were to need them. They're there. So I think this is a really perfect time to kind of wrap up for the day. Do you have any last minute things you would like to give our business owners for some advice or anything that you really kind of want to encourage people to do?
Nathan Moayyad 41:29
I think the most important thing is if you are wondering if you need a lawyer, the answer is probably yes.
Christy Bowie 41:35
I think that's perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Nathan, if people want to reach out to you or get a hold of you, where's the best place for them to do that.
Nathan Moayyad 41:46
So the best way to get a hold of me is to either look me up on LinkedIn, social media, like Instagram, Facebook, or my website at Moya, law.com. Those are the easiest ways to get a hold of me.
Christy Bowie 41:59
Perfect and all of those will be linked in the show notes below. So if you guys are looking for that we'll have a really easy link to it.
So thank you CEOs so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed today. And as always, please leave a review or leave a comment if you have any topics you would like to hear discussed. I can't wait to talk to you next week.